There was some discussion on the San Jose Kenpo forum about how to take a punch. It got me rambling on the subject......any thoughts over here on the subject?
Rich
Mr./Mrs./Ms yellow belt says, "Reverse Bow Sir/Ma'am."
Mr./Mrs./Ms green belt says, "Rotating Twist Sir/Ma.am."
Black belt dude/dudette says, "That's a trick question Sir/Ma'am."
Then there's the smart ass response, "Me pitcher, not catcher."
And seeing as how it's Saturday morning and Network 54 is not working, let me weigh in (that's a lot of weighing;)).
Catch a punch as in your open hand/s and his punch coming together, bad idea right?
Catch a punch as in your chest and his punch coming together, not so bad an idea?
Jerry Quarry catching and blocking punches with the face, really bad?
Nope, can't say that I can add much here. I must not know it all yet, that KEnpo stuff just covers the tipo of anything that I surely have yet to learn.
Actually, Lua covers it at some point. Uncle SOl showed three ways to catch a punch. If I showed you it would make sense, the Kenpo wording would just muddy up the images, and NO, I will not make a video of it, I broke my video camera. Stop cheering so loud.
Go with the force (as long as you see it as it happens) the punch is way to close (Four stages of Contact, oops! Kenpo knowledge, bad clark, bad.).
Clark
me, and only me, and everyone that I learned from.
end transmission.............................................
Clark, chief butinsky of AKF. "Cause ya' know......
http://www.youtube.com/user/kenpoteacher
Kenpojunkie: Jerry Quarry catching and blocking punches with the face, really bad?
Clark,
Jerry was a better fighter than you give him credit for. He fought the best heavyweights in history and pretty much held his own.C utting was his downfall. He was in the wrong era or he would have been Champ. But then again, I might be biased because he was my neighbor and friend.
Not on the other forum, so I apologize if this is redundant... I'd say that one way is to be sort of a swinging gate (or revolving door). As you sense the impact and the line of force of said impact, transition to an angle of deflection and hopefully retaliate simultaneously - like that drum in the old Karate Kid. Triggered Salute, Glancing Salute, and Repeating Mace come to mind. Also, the methods you see more commonly in FMA of hollowing, pivoting, and swiveling out of the way can take a lot of the hurtin' off of a punch if you fail to completely avoid it.
I've found that sometimes I am able to absorb an impact to the body similarly to how you'd catch an egg, but that's tougher to describe in writing, and it doesn't really apply to a punch in the face. Along the same lines, though, I'd say that relaxation is an important element. It's always the drunk that survives the killer car crash, right? Generally, nothing good comes of being rigid or tense - both offensively and defensively - at any point other than the instant when your weapons meets their targets.
Controlling your breathing so you don't get the wind knocked out of you is pretty important too. Again, better at doing this than explaining it.
Thing is, the punches that do the most damage are the ones you don't see coming. Not sure how to improve on taking one of those.
Didn't know there was still Kenpo talk going on over here. I'm still hard at it. Just not on the computer so much. Hope all is well. I'm interested in your thoughts on the above and would like to read your San Jose "ramblings" if you feel like pasting them over here.
Dan
Ever watch the "Deadliest Warrior" ?
Last season they had Russian special forces (Spetsnaz or KGB don't remember) vs. Green Berets. It was a good episode. You could tell the Russians and Americans genuinely didn't like each other.
Part of the episode the Russians show how they take a punch. They had one of the Doctors wail on the smaller russian dude. He kind of goes limp and rolls with each strike. Watching him do it, it wasn't a great secret how he did it. He jus kind of rolled and folded with each punch. Digested them.
Taking a step back to absorb some impact ,rolling with it , I've been taught that. I've also been taught to control the breathing. When I absorb a strike I have been taught to do a small (or not so small) kiai to regulate the amount of air in my lungs. Exhaling a measured amount of air while being hit protects you from having the "wind" knocked out of you. Your lungs are like balloons. If you are hit when they are full ,it is like bursting a balloon with too much air in it. A halway deflated ballon is much harder to burst. That's the analogy I learned, makes sense to me, hope It wasn't confusing.
Jeff K.
J.K.: Taking a step back to absorb some impact ,rolling with it , I've been taught that. I've also been taught to control the breathing. When I absorb a strike I have been taught to do a small (or not so small) kiai to regulate the amount of air in my lungs. Exhaling a measured amount of air while being hit protects you from having the "wind" knocked out of you. Your lungs are like balloons. If you are hit when they are full ,it is like bursting a balloon with too much air in it. A halway deflated ballon is much harder to burst. That's the analogy I learned, makes sense to me, hope It wasn't confusing.
Good points Jeff, breathing correctly makes all the difference.....For those that don't know,I suggest keeping the breath in the lower abdomen, not the chest.
Now take for example how absorbing energy, while breathing correctly, is important when you are taken down or thrown to the ground. This opens more possibilities about body alignment and landing correctly to avoid injury, not to mention how to absorb the impact. The rebounding comes into play and you can see it in those that practice falls on a regular basis and are proficient. They don't splat on the ground, they rebound or bounce!!!!!
Consider what you experience when you are bumped up in rank. Are you bent over,when kicked? Creased? Look like you are folded in half? Back Peddling? Or do you stand your ground and redirect, rebound or repell the force?
What have you learned from the experience.....or do you just go with it.....backwards?
I now give those that I kick the opportunity to kick or punch me back........those that are in the spirit of the moment experience and energy boost.....those that want to hurt me have the energy deflected back and end up hurting themselves!!!!
DanP: Thing is, the punches that do the most damage are the ones you don't see coming. Not sure how to improve on taking one of those.
That's what the meditations are for!!!!!!
When you speed down the freeway, do you look for the CHP? In front of you or behind....or hiding outta sight?
Do you wait to be attacked to respond. or are you putting those feelers out there ahead of time, checking out problem areas, using reflection, obstacles bad feelings, expecting the unexpected?
Consider also the angle of the strikes and the rigidity of the target being struck........like a Muay Thai kick to a support leg in a solid stance?
Take away the 45 degree angle and you can casualy deflect the force or add your own 45's to the deflection and cut through the strike with little effort......strike their kicking leg just above their knee.....SNAP!!!!! Or go into the suppoert leg at the aformentioned 45's......requires some investigation and setting up your attacker for the big surprise, but the results are well worth the effort.
Some might say that is force on force, I will argue that it is a form of redirection and deflection by cutting through it!!!!!!
Whenever possible, don't.
James Hawkins III, SI 410-948-1440 http://www.youtube.com/user/kenpojujitsu3
Hawkins Kenpo Ju Jitsu - "The only thing we slap on are submissions"
You are quite right Jaime, my apologies if I have spouted the standard stupid analogy that describes someone catching punches (and kicks) with their face.
I would think anything to help you survive an attack should be considered........
For some people that is the only way they are going to be able to make contact with their opponent...using their face, because they couldn't hit water if they fell out of a fuck'n boat, LOL!!!!!!
Randall "Tex" Cobb, whom was also a 7th degree black belt, commented on his fight with Larry Holmes........He said Larry was real good at playing tagg....and for 45 minutes I was "IT".....LOL!!!!!!
Um, didn't I start a thread about the difference between WHEN you move from the push, push grab and push grab pull attack and WHEN to move for a kinetic attack (punches and kicks and such)?
We do absorb the punch first with the blocking arm where the shoulder gives the range of motion and the elbow aims the hand/block.
That question on what is the difference between the hammering downward and the regular downward block is tied to this yes? Just askin'.
Kenpojunkie: Um, didn't I start a thread about the difference between WHEN you move from the push, push grab and push grab pull attack and WHEN to move for a kinetic attack (punches and kicks and such)? We do absorb the punch first with the blocking arm where the shoulder gives the range of motion and the elbow aims the hand/block. That question on what is the difference between the hammering downward and the regular downward block is tied to this yes? Just askin'. Clark
Yes you did Clark.......this is more about what you do with the force after being hit because you missed your block, did not move when you were supposed to or were to slow to get there before you were hit.....or in Laymans terms, when you fucked up!!!!!
1988, Stanton California. Olohe Kaihewalu teaching how to adapt the then kenpo techniques we were practicing.
Olohe adapted the kenpo tech Snapping Twig to be a punch catch instead of a push grab.
He also adapted Five Swords, but that is another thread.
AS you stated Rich, his emphasis was a big What If where we do not get the perceptual ball rolling soon enough and the attack overwhelms our motion. He called it a breaking wave attack, tsunami like in intent and guaranteed to fuck up your ideal phase defense. Hmm, how long have I been thinking about that subject?
The idea is to go with the attack angle, two knuckles blasting through your defensive posture(OH SHIT GET YOUR ARMS UP ALREADY.......FAIL) and let the punch make contact as you concave (negative body posture) your upper body and with both hands grasp the arm. He twisted his upper body some and though he (we also) took some pounding, we also took the attacker off of his line of attack. Attacker makes contact (from the front in this adaptation) but also is off balance through his attack. It's kinda like pulling a chair out from under someone right as they try to sit down.
This is my 30th year in these various versions of Kenpo. Do I win anything in particular?
"Just stopped in to see what condition my condition is in." Cool song.
Happy Anniversary Clark!!!!
The idea works when the force, still conected and being driven by the arm, connected through the shoulder with back up mass and so on.
What happens when you pulse the energy then relax?????? We use to call it Feather, Feather, Steel, then back to Feather.....later this was refered to as "Marriage".
Those grappling arts don't work when you disconect and relax, now referred to as "Divorce"!!!
It's alot like trying to knock down a door that you think is locked, then find out is open.....nothing to push against causes over extension and disrupts balance.
Aikido keeps you on the path of destruction by making the connection peaceful, (at first) making you want to continue on the path. That's where the Harmony part comes in....
If you want to counter a Kenpo technique, reverse engineer the technique.